User talk:PatPeter
-- Minish Link (Talk) 02:22, February 22, 2013 Template:Korok Before creating a new template you should ask the community. Bring it up in a forum if you wish to have it created. Green Rupee 03:18, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :Nothing in the Manual of Style says anything of the sort. Also, don't go ignorantly reverting my edits without checking for content unrelated to the template. –[[User:PatPeter|'Pat']][[User talk:PatPeter|'Peter']] 03:29, February 22, 2013 (UTC) ::That's not what the Manual of Style is for, so stop citing it. It's common courtesy to ask for community consensus when you're making a change that affects a large number of articles on the wiki. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 03:36, February 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Wow, I cited it twice, calm down. There are pages on this wiki for which I've edited 10 of them. That does not, no matter how you define it, equate to large. –[[User:PatPeter|'Pat']][[User talk:PatPeter|'Peter']] 03:46, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :::No, but there's a matter of consistency. If we make a Korok template, what reason do we have to not make templates for every other race? That is a big undertaking that we'd have to discuss alongside the discussion to make a Korok template in the first place. This is why you're supposed to bring this sort of stuff up. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 03:51, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :::That's the purpose of a wiki: free editing. If a user adds in a minor template, you let it sit for a while and see how the other users like it. Having a discussion based on theory without a live example is foolhardy, because the reaction to an idea is usually much different than the reaction to the actual implementation of that idea. In addition, I can find no other such group of pages that fits your description of "every other race". Note that the list of Koroks was present on every Korok's page. You don't see this on Kokiri. You don't see this on Zoro. There's a list on Goron, but none of its member pages. Same with Hylian. By the arbitrary rule you are setting forth, my example edit on Anouki Village Goron needs to be done on every Goron page, right now. –[[User:PatPeter|'Pat']][[User talk:PatPeter|'Peter']] 04:04, February 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::That's quite enough of that. Obviously it's ridiculously inefficient to add an entire list of Gorons and Zoras to every page about every Goron and every Zora. It only works for the Koroks due to the small number of them. You are, however, correct: this IS an inconsistency. And if it bothers you this much, I strongly recommend you make a forum about it, since clearly arguing that by making decisions for everyone else you are right isn't working for you. We discuss changes such as these before implementing them; it's just how things work here. ~Minish (talk) 04:08, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :::::That difference between Koroks and other races would be a great argument in a discussion had you actually made one, FYI. Maybe we could have implemented this change now if you hadn't necessitated an ongoing discussion about discussions. EDIT: Regarding why we do discussions here... I know other wikis see themselves as "free" editing sites where you change whatever you want and ask questions later, but over here we regard it very much as a group project, rather than a database floating around that people can just pop in and change arbitrarily. It's just considered disrespectful to make a change that affects an entire group of articles (size nonwithstanding — I know the Korok pages are not a "large" part of the wiki, but they're a notable one, and that's the point I was getting at) without getting the input of your peers. If you really don't like the way we do things here, though, there are other Zelda wikis you could be editing. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 04:12, February 22, 2013 (UTC) As I said in my edit summary, it was only an example edit. What bothers me is that I was welcomed onto this wiki under the false pretense of there being a rule of law, i.e. the Manual of Style. However, in actuality the wiki is run arbitrarily by unofficial policies that its foremost members expect everyone else to know without any means of knowing these policies: # Before my edits, how was I supposed to know that I needed to post on the forums first? # It isn't in the Manual of Style that edits require posting on the forum. # It isn't in the welcome message that I needed to post on the forums before editing. # There is no thread concerning the addition of a "See also" section to every Korok page. So either you should be accusing Jäzzi of "making decisions for everyone else", or you are discriminating against me. In response to Xykeb: # "would be a great argument in a discussion had you actually made one" I'm making one now, or haven't you noticed? Invalidating an argument because it is one place instead of another is nothing short of disrespectful. # "It's just considered disrespectful" Then put it in the Manual of Style! I read the Manual of Style of every wiki I edit first, before anything else. You can't hold someone accountable to rules not written down and that the person had no way of knowing. # "there are other Zelda wikis you could be editing" Sadly, my fierce loyalty to Wikia does not make that an option. I see it as a much better alternative that the Manual of Style be edited to reflect the policies of the wiki so that no other new editors are thrown off as I was. –[[User:PatPeter|'Pat']][[User talk:PatPeter|'Peter']] 04:52, February 22, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah, we do need to write our rules down more clearly. I think we had a project for that, but it was never really finished. And yes, we are sort of discussing it now, but we should move it to the forums so people can find it by the topic. -'Isdrak ' 05:15, February 22, 2013 (UTC) #That was exactly my point. You made a great argument after resisting the need to have one, and if you'd made the same argument beforehand we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place. I wasn't invalidating your argument, just pointing out that if you'd made it in the first place we'd probably be done right now — as it is now, this conversation has mostly devolved into policy discussion. #I freely admit that we need to write down our policies more (although frankly, I feel that asking before making widespread changes should be a universal given and it doesn't make any sense to me at all why this isn't standard), but let me make something completely clear here: that is not what the Manual of Style is for. The Manual of Style is there for article structure; what we need is an outline of general policies. #That's not really our problem though, to be completely honest. We need to put our policies down on paper, true, but if this is the only Zelda wiki you're willing to edit there are some things that you might have to just put up with. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 05:29, February 22, 2013 (UTC)